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Re: Install TOC-MOUL on OS X Using Wine

Postby Mystler » Thu 25. Sep 2014, 17:34

Ainia wrote:Plus, I find the notable lack of interest by the shard admins in helping to solve this problem most distressing.


I find it most distressing that one person in a hundred has a problem and always expects a developer to instantly provide the correct solution.
Who says that we're not interested? I answered several times now, trying to help you, so let me make this clear:

I have absolutely NO idea why it's not working for you!

First of all, I can only provide limited help concerning the topic (OS X and Wine) because I don't use those. Besides, re-copying the files has solved it, in general. You can try launching the repair shortcut for TOC (which is installed by the Installer), but it basically does the same thing.

Please remember that I'm doing this in my free time...
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Re: Install TOC-MOUL on OS X Using Wine

Postby Ainia » Sun 5. Oct 2014, 23:32

Mystler wrote:
Ainia wrote:Plus, I find the notable lack of interest by the shard admins in helping to solve this problem most distressing.


I find it most distressing that one person in a hundred has a problem and always expects a developer to instantly provide the correct solution.
Who says that we're not interested? I answered several times now, trying to help you, so let me make this clear:

I have absolutely NO idea why it's not working for you!

Shorah again Mystler,

Well, all I can say here is that I find your response saddening. You are interpreting my distress as a demand for immediate answers, which could not be farther from the case. it's been quite clear that nobody has answers to this, so I have been asking for information. If I'm to test this, I must start with ruling out the obvious candidates, which in this case means the August TOC updates. Put another way, my other shard installs still work fine (both Wineskin and Cider wrapper versions), which means the obvious first candidate for me to test is the TOC shard updates rather than my local computer settings.

Perhaps I am misinterpreting your responses as a whole. But overall, they have implied that these symptoms are of little to no concern because this is an isolated case and the issue simply cannot be connected with the recent TOC MOUL updates; which *is* distressing to me. Such disinterest implies a belief that a corner-case is irrelevant and that no bugs were introduced in the latest updates; which, if true, is somewhat naive. At least, that's the reality my colleagues and I live with in RL.

In terms of the git list of fixes, this one reads as the best contender for a possible cause, since it was intended to fix a similarly-described Windows display problem. Of course, it would be helpful if I could see an example of this bug in action since I'm only assuming it looks similar to the symptoms I'm seeing, but I realize that's probably not possible. (It's described as "weird flickering" which could describe all sorts of visual behaviors.) However, the changes implemented don't provide me with much in the way of clues about what to change in the Wineskin settings to compensate and test.

In the meanwhile, I have discovered and tested a workaround. Since it involves changing and reverting game settings each time I start TOC MOUL, it's really not a fix, but at least it works. It requires a toggle to the MOUL Vertical Sync setting. I've tested this particular fix dozens of times and so am confident it is a "stable" workaround. There is a gotcha involved with it, though: if the Vertical Sync setting is left toggled on, the next TOC MOUL session will take about *1/2 hour* to load fully (get me to Relto). So it works best to toggle it on and then off again right away. The window blinds effect will be removed for the current session but will return at the start of the next session no matter which state the Vertical Sync is left in at session's end.

Also, I've observed some possible clues about root cause of the window blinds effects in that using screen casting software to capture the behavior at first caught only a strange artifact of the behavior (occasional flashes of black screen) rather than the window blinds behavior itself; and later when using screen casting software to document further testing, the act of recording the screen "cured" the bug; as soon as I stopped recording the screen, the "bug" returned. I wound up using my videocamera to record the behavior earlier today so I could have a reference for the future (or to provide to others who might be interested).

The best I can surmise from this so far is the screen casting software forces a particular setting to correct but then reverts that setting whenever the screencast is stopped.

I still have been unable to get a fresh TOC MOUL install to work and so have been focusing on working with my "old" install instead. My next steps will be to create several backup copies of my working TOC MOUL install, ensure they work, and then test some more of the Wineskin settings related to display. Sadly, all my late July-early August backups were long overwritten by the time I discovered this issue, so I won't be able to do a real compare between my older working install and this one.

At some future point, I will troubleshoot the issues with getting a new install to work. I'd been hoping that if I could get a fresh install working, I could test whether it too has this same issue. Narrowing down the possible root causes for such things is never easy... :?

Mystler wrote:First of all, I can only provide limited help concerning the topic (OS X and Wine) because I don't use those. Besides, re-copying the files has solved it, in general. You can try launching the repair shortcut for TOC (which is installed by the Installer), but it basically does the same thing.

Please remember that I'm doing this in my free time...

Yes, we all are doing this in our free time. I have been spending much of my free time lately testing and retesting this issue. I am hoping that if we learn more about what is happening here, it will benefit the MOUL Mac community.
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Re: Install TOC-MOUL on OS X Using Wine

Postby boblishman » Mon 6. Oct 2014, 20:15

Ainia, I feel for you. I truly wish I could help but my TOC-Moul install works flawlessly. I don't know if it's important but I am using an iMac, not a PowerBook but I'm simply powerless to reproduce your problems. I know how distressing it is when something just fails for no apparent reason... I truly hope you persevere and solve your problems soon. Good luck.
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Re: Install TOC-MOUL on OS X Using Wine

Postby Ainia » Tue 7. Oct 2014, 04:06

Shorah boblishman,

Thanks for the kind thoughts! :)

This is one of the most difficult things about corner cases; they are elusive to nail down to begin with since the data are so slim, but until they are, one cannot know if they are the first sign of a serious issue or not. I'm sure we all are hoping the root cause of this is inconsequential in the larger picture. If the process thus far is any indication, it will be a big job to get this sorted out on my end.

Sadly (and happily!), the nature of shards is that each is unique; which in this case means that the problems and solutions which apply to MOULa and Gehn seem to have no bearing here.

As you have said earlier, it's a challenging puzzle to be sure! Since I have a manageable workaround in the meanwhile, I will probably tinker with the issue rather than hammer at it in the near future. Many other activities are calling; I've already missed out on getting my MOULa house back in order after the recent Great Reset. ;)
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Re: Install TOC-MOUL on OS X Using Wine

Postby boblishman » Tue 7. Oct 2014, 23:46

So glad to hear you speaking in a much more positive way Ainia ... I'm sure that you will find time (eventually!) to lick this "nasty" into shape! Whilst I have grabbed my avvie name in Moula-GR I simply have no time at present to redo everything ... but that gives me something to look forward to once I've got some RL stuff sorted. Hope to catch you online soon ... take care!
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Re: Install TOC-MOUL on OS X Using Wine

Postby boblishman » Sat 15. Nov 2014, 16:46

Just to let everyone know, today I updated to Yosemite.

All of my SEVEN different online shards are working normally ... although the latest update to TOC-MOUL (I haven't played since that last update) again broke the install. To repair it I did the following:

When the installer downloaded the new version of UruLauncher.exe (UruLauncher.exe.tmp ) and then crashed (because it could not remove the old version):

1. I opened the Wineskin wrapper and navigated to the TOC-MOUL install folder where I could see UruLauncher.exe.tmp
2. I deleted the (old) file UruLauncher.exe ...
3. I renamed UruLauncher.exe.tmp to UruLauncher.exe

and the most important part ...
4. I then closed Finder, ... and restarted my machine. (If you don't restart the machine and just try a test run, it just hangs with an "unknown error" ...)
5. After the machine restarted I launched the wrapper as normal ... which then downloaded (and installed) the new UruExplorer.exe and UrucrashHandler.exe ... and finally the game started .

I'm not sure if this will help you Ainia (but I hope so!!) ... and just to clarify for anyone new to this debate ... I'm using Wineskin 2.6.0 with engine 1.7.2 on Yosemite (MacOS 10.10)
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Re: Install TOC-MOUL on OS X Using Wine

Postby Ainia » Sun 23. Nov 2014, 09:23

Shorah boblishman (and anybody else who has or will be upgrading to Yosemite),

You may want to check and implement this before using your new OS.
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Re: Install TOC-MOUL on OS X Using Wine

Postby boblishman » Sun 23. Nov 2014, 12:38

Thanks Ainia ... I'm not sure Apple, Microsoft or any of the other big corporations would be that interested in "an old man like me's" internet searches for 'cheap cat food' or 'best place to buy a comfy chair' ... but I get your message. I guess it makes no difference anymore which OS you choose to access the Internet with ... there is no true "privicy" anymore ... and that's just something I accept as the "payoff" for using the Internet. When I think back to the days before the Internet existed I shudder at the thought of actually getting in my car to drive to the library to just find out IF I might be interested in something compared to just sitting in my (now needs replacing) comfy chair and typing into my iPad. I have followed the advice on your link thought ... and thanks for pointing it out. I guess they'll just sneak something past us with the next update ... I mean, who, in the entire world, has ever read Apple's TOCs? They probably own all our first born children for all we know ;)
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